Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women

Forty-seventh session

Summary record of the 945th meeting

Held at the Palais des Nations, Geneva, on Tuesday, 5 October 2010, at 10 a.m.

Chairperson:Ms. Gabr

Contents

Consideration of reports submitted by States parties under article 18 of the Convention

Sixth periodic report of Burkina Faso

The meeting was called to order at 10.05 a.m.

Consideration of reports submitted by States parties under article 18 of the Convention

Sixth periodic report of Burkino Faso (CEDAW/C/BFA/6; CEDAW/C/BFA/Q/6; CEDAW/C/BFA/Q/6/Add.1)

At the invitation of the Chairperson, the delegation of Burkina Faso took places at the Committee table.

Ms. Yoda Konkobo (Burkina Faso), presenting her country’s sixth periodic report (CEDAW/C/BFA/6), said that the Government, Members of Parliament, religious communities, resource persons and opinion leaders had all participated in the drafting of the report.

The main challenges facing her country were those of improving school enrolment, health and access to decent housing, while combating various forms of violence against women, and poverty.

With a view to ending discrimination against women her Government had not only taken the measures listed in the report, but had also ratified the Optional Protocol to the Convention. It had likewise adopted Act No. 030-2008/AN on combating HIV/AIDS and protecting the rights of persons living with HIV/AIDS. Legislation to curb violence against women had been accompanied by educational measures and the celebration of a national citizenship week every December. Action to prevent female genital mutilation (FGM) and women’s growing readiness to turn to the judicial services for advice and assistance had resulted in a significant fall in the prevalence of FGM among women under the age of 60.

The International Centre for Women’s and Girls’ Education in Africa (CIEFRA) had been set up in order to coordinate action to promote women’s and girls’ education, encourage the inclusion of the gender perspective in development policies and programmes, strengthen countries’ operational capacity in the field of education for women and girls and develop advocacy and fruitful partnerships to facilitate their education. However, while moves to improve women’s representation in political and public life were beginning to bear fruit, the position with regard to women’s nationality had remained unchanged since 2005.

Despite the substantial progress made in the educational sector, challenges still remained with respect to girls’ dropout rate and success at school. Administrative measures accompanying maternal health policies, projects and programmes had led to some improvements, and policies and strategies to reduce the prevalence of HIV/AIDS and care for orphans and vulnerable children had achieved satisfactory results. Advances had also been recorded in terms of access to drinking water and efforts had been made to enable women to enjoy all their rights under the Convention.

As yet, however, those measures’ impact on the actual living conditions of women and girls had not been assessed. Action to promote women’s rights and sexual equality still encountered sociocultural obstacles and, for that reason, it would be necessary to revise strategies and step up awareness-raising activities. Efforts would have to be made to address women’s real needs when drawing up policies and programmes. To that end it would be necessary to analyse women’s role in the production processes in various sectors in order to mainstream gender into strategies and actions.

Articles 1 to 6

Ms. Šimonović, noting that the report covered the period 2001 to 2006, drew attention to the need for timely reporting. She wished to know whether the Convention was directly applicable in Burkina Faso and, if so, whether it had been cited in any court cases. She asked whether the Constitution of Burkina Faso embodied the principle of substantive gender equality and whether there was any statutory prohibition of discrimination of women: if not, did the Government intend to adopt legislation to fill that gap?

Mr. Flinterman asked whether the fact that no complaints had been received by the Committee under the Optional Protocol was because women knew little about the procedure. What had the Government done to implement article 13 of the Optional Protocol? It would seem from the Government’s replies to the list of issues (CEDAW/C/BFA/Q/6/Add.1) that women experienced considerable difficulties in gaining access to justice. He therefore requested more detailed information about the scope of the new measures to improve legal aid for women. Did Burkina Faso receive international assistance to help finance them? What results had they yielded? Furthermore, since bringing court action was usually very expensive, he would like to know if a human rights institution or ombudsman could submit complaints of rights violations to ordinary courts on women’s behalf. Lastly, he asked whether any reference to the Convention had been made in court cases concerning labour rights.

Ms. Ameline drew attention to the fact that the ratification of the Convention and its Optional Protocol was not enough to guarantee progress on women’s rights and gender equality if discrimination was not precisely defined in domestic legislation. She therefore inquired if the Government of Burkina Faso was prepared to enact the requisite legislation and whether Parliament could propose a law on the subject. Might it be possible to set up a special body on women’s rights, along the lines of those existing in some other parliaments? Given the weight of cultural beliefs and practices, she would be interested to know on what legal basis the courts operated.

She asked whether Burkina Faso received direct international assistance to enhance good governance and if so, in what form. Was the issue of equality systematically covered by international aid? Was there meaningful regional solidarity in the struggle to achieve gender equality?

Ms. Arocha Domínguez, noting that Burkina Faso was a rural, multilingual country, was curious about the way in which the Ministry for the Advancement of Women publicized its policies. How did it ensure that the Action Plan for the Advancement of Women, for example, was brought to the attention of public officials so that they could implement it, and to the attention of women in general? She would also like to know what arrangements were made to enable local government representatives to participate in the National Coordinating Meeting of the Action Plan and how measures taken in the provinces were evaluated.

She wished to know whether the publication of the booklet “Women and men in Burkina Faso”, mentioned in the replies to the list of issues, had been followed up by any supplementary measures to disseminate it and to instruct public officials on the use of the statistics contained in the booklet for evaluation purposes.

Ms. Hayashi wished to know to what extent mechanisms such as the women’s clubs mentioned in the replies to the list of issues had been involved in liaising with, or guiding, the government agencies responsible for implementing gender equality policies. She asked what role was played by national mechanisms in policy implementation and monitoring. If those mechanisms found that laws and policies still discriminated against women, what institutional framework existed for them to issue advice and guidance to other government agencies? Had they brought their influence to bear on other agencies, or taken any initiatives themselves, to secure the introduction of fundamental legal reforms to combat violence against women?

In view of the fact that the creation of the National Human Rights Commission had been commended by many States during the universal periodic review of Burkina Faso in the Human Rights Council, she was eager to know how the Commission addressed the gender equality issue and what links it had with other national mechanisms. What remedies did it offer to women who had suffered discrimination?

Ms. Neubauer said that she would like to obtain a more accurate picture of the membership of the Permanent Secretariat of the Action Plan for the Advancement of Women. Did ministerial representatives have decision-making powers enabling them to secure the implementation of the Action Plan by their own ministries? Had the third Action Plan been adopted? If so, what were its main objectives and did it set quantitative targets? She also wished to know what provision was made for the Action Plan in the budgets of the Ministry for the Advancement of Women and other ministries.

She inquired about the human resources of national bodies working to achieve gender equality. How many staff did the Ministry for the Advancement of Women have and had there been any increase during the reporting period? What steps had been taken to train all the focal points in government departments in order to equip them with the necessary skills, knowledge and understanding for the application of gender mainstreaming, including in the budget process?

Ms. Yoda Konkobo (Burkina Faso) said that, while the reporting period was 2001 to 2006, as indicated in the report, more recent information had also been provided, reflecting the continuing advances in women’s rights in Burkina Faso. The legal framework to combat violence against women was inadequate, although Parliament was playing an important role in the promotion of gender equality. Indeed, it had adopted a law setting a 30 per cent quota for minimum representation of each sex in municipal and legislative elections. Burkina Faso was a member of the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS), which had a gender strategy and a gender equality research unit. It had been one of the first countries in West Africa to adopt a national gender policy. A number of pilot mechanisms were in place, including a national council on gender, chaired by the Prime Minister and comprising all ministerial departments as well as other institutions. The council met annually to discuss the implementation of the National Gender Policy and new ways to promote gender equality. It had regional and local branches, which ensured that the laws and regulations on the advancement of women were disseminated nationwide at every level.

The National Gender Policy did not yet have a budget, but Burkina Faso’s technical and financial partners provided assistance in that area under the Paris Declaration on Aid Effectiveness.

Ms. Traoré Sedogo (Burkina Faso) said that, in order to ensure conformity with the Paris Principles, the Government had reviewed the statute of the National Human Rights Commission. Commission members representing civil society had voting rights whereas those representing the Government played a purely consultative role. Elections to the Commission were free from Government interference.

Ms. Ouattara (Burkina Faso) said that the National Human Rights Commission offered victims of human rights violations an avenue of recourse through investigations and legal proceedings. The Government’s policy was to ensure that all women, wherever they were, had access to the justice system, despite regional demographic differences.

Other measures to improve access to justice included an open day organized by the Ministry of Justice, which provided information on judicial procedures. A Government centre had been set up to advise crime victims. Civil society organizations made a significant contribution to improving access to justice and legal advice.

Mr. Flinterman said that he was interested in whether the temporary special measures on primary and secondary education referred to in the State party’s report were indeed temporary or were still in place. If, as indicated in the report, the special measures on secondary education had been discontinued in 2001, why were they still being applied by private organizations? Were there specific targets to be met?

He wondered why such measures were not implemented in the tertiary education sector. The report indicated, for example, that there was special provision for university rooms for girls but said little else about measures to encourage more women to enter university education.

The law setting a quota for representation of each sex in elections was reportedly ineffective, so he wondered why it was considered a temporary special measure and how its success would be evaluated. It would be interesting to know whether the Government was considering temporary special measures in any other policy areas.

Ms. Awori said that mediation in cases of domestic violence might not always help women as it could make it harder for them to leave an abusive relationship. She wondered what other strategies the Government had to help women victims of domestic violence. Did it plan to introduce comprehensive legislation on the subject? Were there any particular impediments to such legislation? She would welcome information on any studies of gender-based violence and data on the number of convictions.

The criminal justice system handed down light sentences to perpetrators of female genital mutilation (FGM) and was slow to prosecute parents who abetted FGM. What measures were in place to train the judiciary and provide protection for victims?

Ms. Ara Begum expressed concern over deep-rooted traditions of baiting and killing older women, particularly in rural areas. She wondered whether the State party intended to adopt legislation on violence against women, as recommended by the Committee in its concluding observations of 2005 (CEDAW/C/BFA/CO/4-5, para. 24).

She asked what measures had been taken to address the issue of early and forced marriage and whether religious and customary leaders were involved in such initiatives. She would be interested to hear the results of the public forums on witchcraft referred to in the replies to the list of issues. She would also like to see figures for witchcraft allegations in each province.

With respect to the 2003 Protocol to the African Charter on Human and People’s Rights, on the Rights of Women in Africa, she asked how the State party was protecting the dignity of vulnerable older women and keeping them safe from sexual abuse, HIV discrimination and traditional violence linked to witchcraft.

Ms. Zou Xiaoqiao said that the State party’s report did not go deeply enough into the question of customary discrimination against women. She wondered whether there was a plan of action to tackle negative images of women in school textbooks and raise awareness of the problem among families. She also wondered whether any action was being taken to combat the tradition of according men higher status than women in society.

The Chairperson, speaking in her capacity as an expert, said that African women faced particular difficulties due to prevailing stereotypes and the traditionally negative image of women. The problem could be resolved only when the entire society became involved in bringing about change.

She asked whether all medical workers had received training concerning FGM. Other African States with experience might be able to advise on such training. The State party could also seek advice from international and African organizations on ways of reducing the gap between the law and practice in general.

Ms. Yoda Konkobo (Burkina Faso) said that the two key levers for development in Burkina Faso were education and health. The Ministry of Basic Education and Mass Literacy had removed all negative images of girls from primary school textbooks and a special commission had been created which aimed to bring a new attitude of gender equality to education in Burkina Faso.

She recognized that there was a need for legislation on violence against women and proposals were being developed. Significant progress had been made in training paralegal personnel and the police to help women victims of violence; moreover, those services had also started to recruit women.

Although penalties for FGM were not harsh, all courts certainly condemned the practice. A clinic with specially trained medical staff had been set up to treat women subjected to FGM. She welcomed the suggestion that Burkina Faso should seek regional expertise on the issue, and pointed out that the First Lady of Burkina Faso was an active campaigner against FGM.

Violence against vulnerable older women often involved accusations of witchcraft. Parliament was addressing the issue, and a group had been set up by the few women members of Parliament to look into the problem. The Ministry of Social Services and National Solidarity was already taking action and there were a number of shelters where older women accused of witchcraft could get help.

Early marriage was recognized as a form of violence against women. When immature girls gave birth they often developed obstetric fistula. Increasingly, girls were able to obtain treatment for that condition, thanks to measures included in a national action plan to end violence against women.

The Government and women’s associations were continually carrying out awareness-raising activities on violence against women. Civil society organizations also helped to raise awareness of violence against women and of the laws protecting women. Many women were unaware of the law, in part due to the difficulties of disseminating information in a multilingual country. Not only was 80 per cent of the population illiterate, but few people could read the official language, French, the language the law was drafted in.

The law specifying quotas for parties’ election candidates had been adopted only on 16 April 2009 and would first be applied at the next elections. It would be necessary to wait to see if it worked in practice. The quota ought also to apply to appointed posts, and when the law was reviewed her Ministry would certainly ask for it to do so.

Under the Constitution, international treaties that had been ratified took precedence over domestic law, which meant that victims of rights violations could cite the Convention in proceedings before national courts.

Ms. Guigma Nassa (Burkina Faso) said that the new primary school textbooks, containing no sexist stereotypes or images, were distributed free of charge and were in use in schools. Her country had embarked on an educational reform to introduce gender-sensitive teaching methods because, even if textbooks no longer contained any trace of discrimination against girls, teachers could still display a discriminatory attitude as a result of their traditional mindset. Courses had therefore been devised in teacher training colleges to counter that problem. Burkina Faso had thus moved beyond the stage of revising textbook content to attempt to alter the behaviour of teaching staff.

“Surveillance clubs” had been set up in schools to help girls feel safer and thus facilitate their access to education. Unwillingness to speak up was often the reason the law was not applied when girls fell prey to violence at school. When children, parents and staff were organized in a club they were more committed to making sure that girls did not drop out. When the children themselves denounced violence, parents tended to listen to them. Not all schools had surveillance clubs, but there were already 200 of them.

Whether temporary special measures were really temporary depended on the results achieved. The BRIGHT project, for example, had initially done no more than promote access by constructing schools and encouraging girls’ enrolment, but it had proved so successful that it had been decided that buildings should accommodate six rather than three classes. The measures had been described as “temporary” because they had not previously existed and might be adjusted in the light of the results obtained.

Another temporary measure had been the introduction of free enrolment for girls in their first year of schooling. Fees were subsidized by the Government with the support of its financial and technical partners. That temporary measure might likewise be extended.

Ms. Chutikul said that the report did not make it clear whether Burkina Faso had ratified the Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, Especially Women and Children, supplementing the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organized Crime. She therefore sought confirmation that the definition of trafficking in Act No. 09296AN/2008 was all-inclusive. She was concerned that, despite the passing of Act No. 038-2003/AN, many girls were still trafficked for domestic work and prostitution, some to neighbouring countries. She wondered what progress had been made with the formulation of a national strategy to combat trafficking in women and children. Had any preventive and protective measures been introduced and, if so, were they multidisciplinary and multisectoral and human-rights based? Was the delegation aware that the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights had issued a document entitled “Recommended Principles and Guidelines on Human Rights and Human Trafficking” (E/2002/68/Add.1), which specifically covered the trafficking of children? She asked what conclusions had been drawn from the analytical study on the situation of trafficking in women which had been prepared by the Ministry of Social Services and National Solidarity and what further steps were planned to eradicate the problem.

As to cross-border trafficking, she requested information about the contents of the multilateral agreement on cooperation in combating human trafficking, which Burkina Faso had signed in 2006. What countries were covered by the agreement? How was it being implemented and how effective was it?

Ms. Yoda Konkobo (Burkina Faso) said that her Government had already explained what it understood by the expression “trafficking in human beings”. The main form of trafficking in Burkina Faso was in girls from rural areas who were looking for work in towns and who were often exploited in every respect. Girls and boys were also sent to neighbouring countries to work in plantations. That was why her country had signed the Trafficking Protocol. The Burkina Faso authorities cooperated with neighbouring countries to check any vehicle transporting girls who were going to work in another country, accompanied or not. On returning to Burkina Faso the girls were sent to Government-run training centres where they learnt to read and write and were instructed in domestic skills so that that they could find decent work with employers offering them a decent wage. Such centres did not, however, exist in all parts of the country.

Ms. Outtara (Burkina Faso) said that Burkina Faso had ratified the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organized Crime and all its Protocols. In order to comply with the Trafficking Protocol, Act No. 038-2003/AN had been amended in 2008 to deal with any aspects that had previously been neglected. The definition of trafficking used in Burkina Faso was exactly the same as that used in the Convention against Transnational Organized Crime. The Ministry of Social Services and National Solidarity was chiefly responsible for implementation, and it cooperated with the Ministry of Justice, which had appointed local focal points to monitor cases involving trafficking.

Ms. Yoda Konkobo (Burkina Faso) said that in September 2010 Burkina Faso had hosted a regional conference on trafficking, which had drawn up a road map to be followed by the Burkinabé Parliament and those of Benin, Togo, Mali and Senegal. Measures to combat trafficking were being taken at governmental and parliamentary level and by civil society organizations.

Ms. Pimentel, returning to the subject of FGM, wished to know whether, in addition to criminal measures to punish persons carrying out excision, there was a strategy to educate people and to offer excisors alternative forms of employment.

Mr. Flinterman asked what role was played by the Ombudsman in promoting and protecting gender equality in the National Human Rights Commission. Was the Commission fully independent, in accordance with the Paris Principles? He understood that women could submit complaints to the Commission citing the Convention. What action could the Commission take on those complaints? Could it mediate between the alleged victim and Government authorities? He asked the delegation to supply examples of cases brought by the Commission in the ordinary courts. Was it authorized to draw the Government’s attention to discriminatory legislation still on the statute book? What role did it play in disseminating information on women’s rights?

He asked how roles were divided between the Ministry for the Advancement of Women and the Ministry for the Promotion of Human Rights. Which ministry was responsible for protecting and promoting women’s human rights?

Ms. Šimonović requested more information about penalties for the violation of women’s rights. Were there any plans for a specific law on gender equality? She would also like to know why there was no legislation on domestic violence in Burkina Faso and why the Government had rejected recommendations from the United Nations Human Rights Council to introduce such legislation.

Lastly, with regard to FGM, she asked which was the more effective means of dissuading parents from having their daughters subjected to excision, criminalization or awareness-raising?

Ms. Chutikul asked what steps were taken to prosecute traffickers of children. How was the work of the police, social workers and emigration officials coordinated? She also requested information about the findings of research into trafficking.

Ms. Yoda Konkobo (Burkina Faso), replying to the questions relating to FGM, said that Burkina Faso had moved away from awareness-raising and was tending to prosecute both those who performed excision and their accomplices. The relatives of the child were often accomplices and were therefore arrested at the same time as the excisor. Excisors were retrained and provided with microcredit so that they could engage in another occupation. They were also used in other awareness-raising activities, as they were good at persuading other women to give up the practice.

Her own Ministry, the Ministry for the Advancement of Women, strove to promote women’s rights, while the Ministry for the Promotion of Human Rights endeavoured to advance everyone’s human rights. There was, however, still so much to be done that even two departments were unable to meet all the targets that had been set. They therefore welcomed the work done by civil society organizations and all the other bodies that were pushing to advance women’s rights.

Ms. Traoré Sedogo (Burkina Faso) said that the National Human Rights Commission cooperated closely with the Ministry for the Promotion of Human Rights. It was authorized to give opinions and to that end could conduct inquiries into any human rights issues.

Ms. Dermé Traoré (Burkina Faso) said that the National Human Rights Commission had initially been attached to the Ministry for the Promotion of Human Rights, but was now administratively and financially independent, in conformity with the Paris Principles. The members of the new Commission had been elected on 24 September 2010.

The Government could seek the Commission’s advice on certain legislative texts or before the ratification of certain treaties. The Commission could, of its own motion, examine the provisions of treaties and domestic legislation and draw the Government’s attention to any that did not comply with the international treaties ratified by Burkina Faso, including the Convention. Where complaints were submitted, the Commission would verify the allegations, provide the complainant with guidance and monitor the progress of the file. The Commission could, also, of its own motion, inspect places of detention to ensure that the rights of detainees were respected. The Commission therefore had the power to ensure the Government’s compliance with the treaties Burkina Faso had ratified.

Ms. Yoda Konkobo (Burkina Faso) said that Burkina Faso had not rejected the recommendation that it should enact specific legislation to prevent violence against women. It had stated that it would take note of the recommendation. In the past violence against women had been dealt with under the Criminal Code, but Burkina Faso would certainly attempt to follow the recommendation.

Intermediaries in cases of trafficking were prosecuted. Cooperation between the various departments involved in arresting and prosecuting traffickers was coordinated by the Ministry of Social Services and National Solidarity.

Articles 7 to 9

Ms. Belmihoub-Zerdani commended Burkina Faso on the progress it had made in implementing women’s rights since it had attained independence. She particularly welcomed women’s increased participation in public and political life, although more women were needed in positions of responsibility in the judicial and educational sectors. She urged the delegation to heed the Committee’s comments and to hold a press conference on returning home in order to publicize the dialogue and the Committee’s recommendations.

Ms. Neubauer said that she had the impression that Parliament and NGOs were more active in promoting women’s participation in public and political life than the Executive. She requested clarification as to whether the requirement that 30 per cent of candidates should be women applied to parliamentary or local elections. She would like to know what other complementary measures and actions were envisaged by the Government in order to create conditions conducive to more women being elected and appointed to decision-making levels in administrations. Was there a quota for women in such appointments? How many senior women judges were there? Was there any evidence that the women’s representation in the upper echelons of the civil service was increasing? If not, did the latest gender equality strategies set any targets for increasing women’s representation at decision-making levels and in the diplomatic service?

Ms. Yoda Konkobo (Burkina Faso) said that women accounted for 36 per cent of municipal council members, thanks in large part to the work of Parliament and civil society organizations. The Government had also played a role, working with 14,000 women’s groups and associations to increase women’s participation in local government. Awareness-raising and other activities would take place before the elections in 2011 and 2012 to encourage women to take advantage of the new law on quotas for candidates. The Government was considering instituting a system whereby men and women would be listed alternately on party lists to avoid women being grouped at the bottom.

Increasing numbers of women were being appointed to high-level posts. Among others, there were currently four women ambassadors, six women ministers and seven women secretaries-general.

Ms. Ouattara (Burkina Faso) said that there had been an increase in the number of women in senior posts in many parts of the judiciary.

Ms. Murillo de la Vega expressed concern at article 143 of the Personal and Family Code of Burkina Faso on the nationality of children from birth. Displaced women had no official status and as a result their children did not receive Burkina Faso nationality. She wondered what progress had been made with regard to the issue of displaced persons’ nationality.

Articles 10 to 14

Ms. Bailey said that, according to the report, around two thirds of girls enrolled in primary school did not complete their schooling. There was, however, no evidence in the report that the factors contributing to the high drop-out rates for girls had been systematically identified so that they could be addressed. Given that violence in schools appeared to be a serious problem, she would be interested to know how far it affected girls. She would appreciate receiving information on the results and recommendations of the gender-based study of violence in the education system referred to in the replies to the list of issues.

The State party should clarify the situation with regard to school fees since the report referred to both free and subsidized schooling. Although primary education should be the main focus of action, she wondered what findings the study on gender problems in tertiary level education, mentioned in the report, had yielded.

Ms. Pimentel said that she would be interested to know how educators were trained in human rights and how gender-awareness training was handled. She would also like to know more about the publications and studies underpinning such training and whether any amendments had been made to education legislation in that respect.

Ms. Yoda Konkobo (Burkina Faso) said that great efforts were being made to keep girls in school and to encourage mothers to send their daughters to school instead of keeping them at home to do housework. Mothers had organized support groups (associations des mères éducatrices) to promote girls’ education and encourage girls to stay in school and succeed. The rural location of many communities was a challenge: as part of a pilot project, the State party had built community residences to house girls away from their home villages so that they could continue their secondary education.

As one of the few countries which had a Ministry of Basic Education and Mass Literacy, Burkina Faso was taking steps to address illiteracy, including a new plan to significantly improve literacy rates from 2011.

Current affairs was part of primary school teacher training and gender was included on the syllabus.

Ms. Nassa (Burkina Faso) said that Government policy had not necessarily been effective in keeping girls in school and alternatives were being considered. Violence, both at school and in the home, was a key factor in the drop-out rates for girls. Early marriage and income-generating activities also prevented girls from attending school. Training was provided for parents on children’s rights and the detrimental effects on the family of sending only boys to school. Attitudes towards girls’ education were a problem: media events and other awareness-raising activities aimed to encourage parents to enrol girls in school were taking place.

The meeting rose at 1 p.m.